Haywarduck

And to think we can only imagine, up to this point, what it will be like to have a healthy Thibs for 4 quarters. Every player on defense is better when he is on the field and the offense benefits too.

I read it as saying 'at times....... Oregon has looked like a team capable of hanging with the nations best.' 'As long as there is still time on the clock, they have a shot to win' is how I read it. I know the other half of that paragraph made the opposing view, but the question I have is which team is going to show up through the rest of the season? My take is I am getting more positive as most are going the other direction. His last sentence asks if it is time to admit we aren't that good, not ready yet.

Helton was the sc hire which was like the Riley hire at Nebraska, a good guy attempt. I expect sc to continue to be too toxic for anyone except some extremely unique coaches, not sure who that would be for sure. At Oregon every coach hired has improved their previous record, not sure that will continue. Agree this week will be interesting, but maybe not pivotal. Too many are looking at one game as pivotal. What we need to see is progress, and reasonable expectations.

I agree, what is being seen on the field isn't acceptable to a fan base which has seen qb after qb who is a superstar, but that isn't what we have now. I also agree seeing an offense, which seems to be a prevent offense is at best confusing to a fanbase who watched hurry up become a thing. The offense is evolving, and maybe enough going forward, we will see. What I don't agree is booing is a part of the answer. The answer will either come from Cristobal evolving, having a respectful discussion with say a Saban, or the quiet hand which has guided so many programs in the Athletic Department. What booing and an unruly fanbase will do is create a toxic place to work, and play for the student athletes along with the coaches to grow into what we all want. Again I will agree to disagree with how to get that done. I think we can all agree the next 6-7 weeks will go a long way to solidifying our positions on what is going on. I also think we want that to end on a positive note, that we can all agree upon, I hope!

Agree that isn't my concern, actually the exact opposite. I disagree with how to nudge the program, and agree to disagree. I do think there is a plethora of evidence on how we don't want to go down the road I see happening with our fanbase. I also enjoy when discussion creates passionate discussion!

I am an admitted idealist who tries to be a realist. I completely agree times have changed with expectations, and what is acceptable. In the past our program accepted the losses and struggles while looking longterm. I question whether we have that same patience and ability to really understand the process it took, nor the process it may take. There are two choices, be patient like few programs in this day and age, or get in line for the musical chairs of coaches. Some of you may be right, it will take negative fan pressure to change Cristobal. I think we may just run him off like so many other programs do to their coaches. For most respect and loyalty is a two way street, Cristobal I bet falls into this camp. I am also not saying this is the outward request of many of your expectations and actions. The question will be is this the longterm affect on the program, just another program in which there is a toxic fanbase, along with an Athletic Department trying to appease the lowest denominator. It is a nationwide pandemic on most fandom. Oh how I love to agree to disagree, fills me up.

The quote was back when Solich was coach. I would argue the Nebraska fanbase is a perfect example of what we don't want Oregon to become, and is on the verge of becoming. I will also say it is the model of what a program should have been, until they took that turn of creating the turnstile of coaches so many programs have created. Oregon can be the Nebraska that stood by Solich, or the program that decided to fire him and go decades looking for the next great coach while creating such a toxic environment that even when they find the guy he can't win. Again I have no problem criticizing, questioning coaches decisions. I don't even have a problem question student athlete's, I certainly didn't support AB last spring or this fall. I will say I have come around to accepting this team and all it's worts. The process may not be pretty, but we don't want to become a worse picture of that process as a fanbase.

Like I said, it is the big boys who really are going to hit the AD in the pocket. My point is if you want to protest, don't buy the garb, the food, walk out. Don't allow yourself to be labeled as the lowest denominator in the Oregon fanbase. I won't get political, but my son went to a protest and I think his experience was telling. He was all fired up, saw all the injustices and wanted to be a bigger part of it. I told him to find the smart people working to make real change, don't get caught up in the craziness of the moment. I think, right now, too many people are getting caught up in the protest, and not really seeing the process which is going to create the change they want or understanding what that process will look like. Fortunately my son didn't get caught in the protest movement we see on both sides right now, and what I see beginning to happen with Oregon Football. I think we should continue to share ideas on FD and move in a positive real Oregon Fan direction. It all starts and stops with the actions of each of us.

Here is a quote from a blog I included at the bottom, ' I'm a Cornhusker fan. We don't cheat, we have a great academic record and our kids are generally good folks. These are things to be proud of and the fans should represent Nebraska with that same class.' And I ask, what kind of fans do we want to be and what kind of program? The blog is from the start of Nebraska's over two decades of trying to find the next great coach. The husker nation is thought of as the best, if not one of the best fan bases in all of fandom. They frown on booing, but like most are impatient fans who have grabbed at many different iterations of coaching styles. From Bo Pelini, to awe shucks, and nothing has pleased them. We were fortunate we had a coach with integrity we stood by over 40 years ago. He had recruiting violations and we stayed the course. Over the years he hired guys who built systems and processes which were the foundation of the Oregon Football Program for decades after he left. That was destroyed and we are starting again. I ask who do we want to hire coaches, and build systems and processes going forward? I will also say those systems and processes take time to implement and evolve, like our pistol plunge, thankfully seeing the grave. Do we really want to start over, like so many programs looking for the next Nic Saban? Division 1 football is littered with programs like Nebraska is now. Texas is now just like Tennessee, which is just like Florida State who is like USC. We can be different if we gracefully stand behind a coach with integrity and a vision. We can be 'the most intelligent fans,' but we can also be the most loyal, classy and understand we need to be part of the long game. The long game is supporting a coach with integrity, while pointing out weaknesses. That support involves understanding the growth process and it's many stops and starts. Tell me who has had great success among us, without many failures and stumbles? I know for me, my greatest success has come with great struggle, but also with few important supporters. Bottomline I don't want to become an ugly fanbase. I also don't want to become another football program always on the lookout for the next great coach with a quick fix. There are over a 100 of those programs out there with those two traits, and only a few who seem to be stand behind their coaches. I don't want to become just another program, where it seems many have us headed. https://www.huskermax.com/2cents/100707responses5.html

I think they are, these guys are involved in a process which is bringing about a positive result, they are 5-1. The fans are the ones who aren't having fun, we don't appreciate the process, or the outcome. I think we have all been involved in a process with bumps in the road. The most enjoyable processes I have been involved in have been full of difficulty. The players are enjoying what they are doing. I do agree a different type of offense would be preferable, but I think we are kidding ourselves if we think the players aren't enjoying this run. They will also enjoy the run next year when the young guys take over.

I think the booing might work, but not in the way intended. Voting with your pocketbook, on the other hand, is much more effective. Protesters are often looked upon as rude, disorganized and ineffective. When we boo at Oregon as they win, it may just make us all look bad, as protesters often do. We get bunched into those who step over the line. Much like the picture of Herb Brooks I posted, who coached Team USA in the Olympics, the hate for him provided the energy to the team. They all bound together in their hate of the coach. There are indications the team is doing this right now, with the fans as the hated one. So booing might work, just not as it is meant too, again, much like protesters. In the end the team might win, the coach who we dislike might end up looking good too. This will just promote all the same stuff the booing is intended to change! As far as voting with our pocketbooks this is the most effective way to communicate to the AD. This is actually why we have little power, but the big donors, like the lobbyist in real life, have all the power. We can walk away, and make a ripple in the direction of the team. The big donors, in the end, will have the biggest impact and they aren't blind to what is going on. Basically I am not a big protester, it is mostly just cathartic to the fan, and not the type of emotional relief I look for. I would rather just walk away, and enjoy the many amazing things in life. I also try to reframe what is going on and realize this is just a process we need to appreciate. Bottomline I appreciate student athletes working toward a goal, and I don't appreciate unruly fans acting like they are enabled whiners. We all make choices, this is how I see it.

Agree with Duckit, we have to win the turnover battle if we are going to beat anyone competitive. We were able to pull off a victory against Cal without the turnover ratio in our favor. The games coming up the defense will have to help us or the O will have to get some 'juice.' We have gone from leading the NCAA in the turnover margin to all the way down to 5th. We need to stay up there is we are to keep the dream alive.

Nope

It is nice to have Camden Lewis to remind us all, players do develop, and it is rewarding to see it happen. The other positive is the win. The warriors on this team deserve a great season and a win, down the road, will be looked upon as just that, a win. In 2019 we went from beating Cal, at home by 10, to some really good games. If we can build off this win then we just might see some good football going forward. The main positive is the this team is 5-1 just like in 2019. This team has an opportunity to do as well and better than that team, the time is now, Go Ducks! Also thanks for starting this thread. After yesterday I was going to take a hiatus from posting. I just don't need to see this team attacked or kick them anymore with posts. These student athletes are doing their best, and the coaches, with all their flaws care about this group more than most will ever know. They deserve constructive criticism, but our unending support, in the end.

The Black Mamba.

we are just criticizing because it is easy and relieves the stress? I mean it could be a lot worse, we are a top 10 team, top recruiting school and run a clean, well thought of program.

Mario is able to recruit because of Oregon's past and what he is selling. The Oregon Ducks of 2021 aren't what they were in the past and I am not sure what he is selling. Oregon's recruits are drawn to becoming the next DAT, ask multiple Ducks who they grew up watching and they will say DAT. The plethora of Duck qb's and one we didn't recruit, Tua, grew up idolizing Marcus and more recently they want to be the next Justin. The hurry up, massive scoring teams are what Mario is able to leverage with these recruits. What he is selling, obviously extends beyond the offense. He has recruited extremely well at LB and other positions, but I really wonder what kind of picture does he sell these kids? The real question is what is Mario selling and does it align with what he is producing? I know we have heard him talk about improving upon the past. I wonder what he is telling the recruits. It has worked up to this point.

I have to go back to this one, not even close! There, that felt better.

Next years first 3 opponents are 17-1 this year. Playing at Georgia will be the start of one of the toughest seasons we have seen.

So they feel great about how it is all going until the boos come? Testament to the fact that the positive motivation Mario is using doesn't always work well with young men. Many young people, who have been raised in the trophy culture, do indeed love the positive feedback, but they need to be set straight on their journey to greatness. I am not advocating for booing of the players or demeaning someone's effort. I will say many young people need a father figure who will tell them exactly what it takes, and when that isn't happening. We saw that explode on national tv with one of our players, but maybe it needs to be more consistent information feed by the coaches and staff. This team has all the signs there are too many times the Ducks are looking for a kumbaya moment, when they need all hands on deck moments. The mentality of this team needs to change in order to reach their potential!

I brought this topic up because AB, Cristobal and the Oregon Athletic Programs are more like family than a hobby. The teams are our children and grandchildren and not some project we actively work on. Why can't we accept Anthony and all his limitations? Is he like the adopted child that never really bonds with the rest of the family. Does it take a proper amount of time to bond with a player. Do we ache for Ty, or Butterfield or even Ashford because they are our guys? Do we somehow want to go through the growing pains with one of ours, but not with somebody else's? Were Masoli and Vernon accepted because they met out standards? We certainly turned on Masoli once he made a mistake. Is it just too hard for most to accept a transfer running our extended family and accept their limitations? With Cristobal I think his acceptance goes back to our DNA. Many of us have rooting for the long shot in our make-up. The problem is we are no longer the dark horse, and the process of rooting for a group players we can't relate to, and allow them to develop is just too confusing. We have no tolerance, or understanding for how the elite struggle and evolve. We are use to beating those guys as they develop and always enjoyed that. Lastly with Cristobal he isn't an innovator. Oregon fans young and old hunger for innovation. The Knights are even building a 6000' innovation lab at Oregon, something Mario should visit often. The problem is Cristobal isn't an innovator, he comes from Blue Blood programs. The good news is we have young qb's we hopefully can relate to. Cristobal actually comes from a very humble background, and understands the foundational traits needed to succeed, which aren't just being born great. For now we have to accept our qb, even support him, he is ours. We also have to accept Cristobal and his search for Oregon's next great step. I think he will find it, it is taking these young student athletes and letting them enjoy the game more. He at times lets them, but he needs to accept Oregon's football heritage, while we accept him.

The new normal, 4th quarter with the game on the line, refs give the game away, the other team doesn't get it done. What we expect, Oregon runs away with the game, crushes the opponent. There is a large chasm between expectations and reality with this team.

It think it is a fair question, when we are a top ten team in the nation, why don't we appreciate, accept this team? We are a school which has been blessed with amazing qb play for decades. There are 130 D1 teams, each one capable of producing quality, NFL caliber qbs, and we almost without fail produce some of the best. I would name them but we all know and love them. Even when we struggled we had Justin, maybe the most talented qb yet. This allowed us to continue to think amazing qb play was normal. What we are seeing is the fact most programs struggle with their qb's. AB should be appreciated, but it is hard at Oregon when our expectations are so high, but the team is behind AB, make no mistake. We may not enjoy his limited abilities, there will be no NFL scouts, but Cristobal, and the players love the guy. As far as the offense, well plenty has been said about the prevent offense, enough said. Basically this team isn't enough for the fans. What I saw last night was it is enough, and acceptable for the players. We either accept that, or stay angry. I have to accept it.

If they do then it will make me feel better about playing the beavs this year. I want the Ducks pissed and ready to set it straght come November 27th. What is interesting about our recent record against teams we lost against in 2018 we had redemption against them in 2019, but then laid an egg against ASU. Maybe we laid the egg at Stanford, and now are on a run against teams we lost to and the others? Tonight is either the start of something, but hopefully not the continuation of the malaise of our recent past.